Ribs

[shen]

So i had a very reassuring chat with my doctor about my ribs ... not ...

I showed her my ribs and how they are getting increasingly more out of shape with each passing month. The first reply 'oh wow!' very reassuring .... she felt them with a look of shock on her face and gave the reply 'that's really weird!!' she doesnt know what is going on, but said that since im seeing prof G in a couple of weeks i should ask him, but she 'doesnt like how they look or feel' .... fantastic... I really dunno what is happening, they always hurt and constantly pop in and out of place. They poke out at the front and have a really odd shape at the side. I'm really hoping that prof g can tell me something about what is going on.

[Sandy L]

Shen, check alignment of the thoracic spines. The quick check--not necessarily definitive--is to bend over and have someone sight up the dorsal spines. Scoliosis is often accompanied by rib distortion/

[shen]

Hi Sandy,

When i bend over there doesnt seem much difference in the ribs at the back, no lumps or bumps in particular according to OH (i asked him to look last time we were together) And when i feel i cant feel anything strange. Prof bird did say that i have a slight scoliosis, and its noticable that i always lean to my right when sat or standing upright. If i try leaning on my left arm for example its very very uncomfortable and painful, i just naturally lean to the right. I even had an xray on my spine by prof bird a couple of years ago that came back fine, but then he jsut said 'its the eds' and left it at that, not further tests or anything. All this just seems to make it more confusing as to why my ribs are getting more and more distorted and painful, unless its due to the dislocations. It started couple of years ago and it was barely noticeable, but now you can see it through my clothes and it looks really really weird. But it hurts around the back of my ribs when i breathe in deeply and feels like there isnt enough space to inflate my lung fully if that makes sense. im just really hoping prof g can give me some idea, even if its just something for my GP to use as a spring board for more tests or jut reassurance that its nothing particularly bad.

[Spireite]

Shen, how are your ribs lying on the floor? Is your pelvis twisted?

I'm with Sandy. I had scoliosis which used to be visible. It is no longer visible but can be seen under X-ray sadly. My rib cage used to feel distinctly unequal and distorted lying on the floor. I also had a twisted pelvis which was quite shocking under X-ray, made the radiographer squeal, but the doctor said it was all fine, go away. As I untwist the pelvis and scoliosis, so the rib cage feels much less distorted.

As for the root cause of the scoliosis - well that stems from unequal severe foot overpronation. How is your pronation?

[Rosie]

Hi all

Shen, not all scoliosis is caused by pronation. The majority of scoliosis cases are idiopathic, ie they don't don't know what causes it. My DD1 has scoliosis and our local ortho consultant classed it as idiopathic and said it would not get any worse as she had finished growing. The ortho at RNOH Stanmore who is knowledgable about EDS said that her scoliosis was due to her EDS and the chances were it would continue to deteriorate slowly. One degree a year is not much change, but when you think that is ten degrees over ten years it is a different matter.
DD1's curvature had spinal rotatio and a noticeable hump on her back/shoulder. There is a lengthy thread on scoliosis if you want more info.

Rosie

[shen]

Hi Spireite. When i lay on the floor my ribs stick up quite alot, OH and i joke that it looks like i have 4 boobs. The left side sticks up slightly more, which is consistent with how they seem standing, its more pronounced at the front then too. I dont really know about my pelvis, its never been checked though i do know it does wobble a bit especially during, shall we say, vigorous excericse I dont actually pronate my feet i think the term is supination? I walk on the outside of my feet rather than the inside. The last podiatrist i saw commented on how i have the bendiest and most unstable ankles he's ever seen. I roll my feet when i walk, starting on the outside and roll them flat as i step through, if that makes sense. I don't have pronation though. (just a big problem with muscle spasms in my calf/shin when i walk from the muscles trying to overcompensate for my dodgy ankles)

Rosie: Thanks for you help! I remember reading about your daughter. I just got told i had a slight scoliosis and then nothing more, nobody explained anything to me or even really checked it out, my physio dismissed it as 'prof bird says that about everyone.' I guess im just a bit worried about how fast its changing and how painful its getting, my gp didnt reassure me when i showed her and she just said 'wow! thats really weird!" not the kind of thing you want to hear from your doctor when you are already a bit concerned about it. I guess i'm just hoping Prof G can help with this and answer some of my questions since none of the other doctors have.

Thanks for your help guys

[nemonie]

Hi Guys,

Shen - snap on the feet, supination, I stand on the outside edge of my feet (if I don't do this my ankle and feet collapse inward, which pulls my knees and hip joints in too). As I walk I roll my feet along the edge and then inward and finally twist out, it's a bit random.

My ribs (staying on topic ) have been kind-of collapsing in or down on themselves when I sit. It's the worst when I drive, I think because I have to sit up straighter. It kind of feels like the cartilage in between is getting squished out of the way and the ribs are just smooshing together. Can that actually happen? The bottom ribs are always the most painful, I think because I have a very short waist, so the space between my bottom ribs and the top of the side of my pelvis is very small. If I've been sat down for too long this space seems to get smaller and smaller until it all just seems to compress together. Urgh it feels gross.

[sheppeyescapee]

I've been told that because my core is so bad it is making the slipping ribs worse. I'm doing the physio exercises that I was given but progress is either really slow or non-existant. Is there anything else that I can do to help this as it feels like they are getting worse

[Rosie]

Hiya

Have you tried supporting the ribs while you exercise? Several things can help, from 'shaping' underwear, support braces or corsets to wet suits. I now it sounds daft but they do give the muscles some support, and for me this makes the difference between being able to tolerate some exercises when without them i couldn't. Have you tried hydrotherapy? works for some, particularly for basic core stability exercises. Do remember it can take much longer for us to show any improvement, and it is important to have someone check that you are doing the exercises correctly. My body can look like I am doin them ok, but a closer inspection shows I am often using the wrong muscles.

Rosie

[Es*]

Not really sure if I should be putting this here, or in a separate post ... I'll try here... mods, let me know if I'm wrong (as is frequently the case...)

Basically, I would like some advice/help from you rib issues people. Generally, my ribs are about the only part of me that doesn't do all kinds of things it shouldn't. I sometimes have a little pain, and if I lay down on my side then the two sides of my rib cage will rub a bit, but other than that, my ribs are fine. For the moment...

I want to know whether any of you can see particular issues for bendies with http://www.handimove.com/pages/in/profe ... dy-support this. The backstory/context for why, is below.

Long story short, I moved into a wonderful new flat. All is lovely and easy and accessible and fabulous, except the bathroom. For various reasons, I love having a bath (pain, muscle spasm as well as liking to read a book there). The bathroom is quite physically problematic for me, and I've also had several quite nasty falls. Although the obvious solution (perhaps?) would be to put in a level access shower, I really, really, don't want that to happen. I'm fortunate to have a wonderful occupational therapist, who is trying to find solutions for me. I have been using a bath lift for a long time now, but for various reasons it's much much more difficult, and indeed dangerous (I keep ending up on the floor) in this bathroom than it has been previously, and the space is very small and constrained in various ways that we can't get around. My OT and I have looked at a bath with a sort of bath lift included in it, something similar to http://www.chilterninvadex.co.uk/shower ... Master.htm. Again, because of the constraints of the room, it's far from ideal. It would mean I'd need to get on and off the seat (i.e. in and out of the bath) with the bathroom door open, which is problematic from a privacy point of view, especially given that I often have teenage boys here! So, my OT and I have been looking at hoisting options. I would like to stress that I don't use, need to use or intend to use this much. I'm quite conflicted about it in some ways. That said, there are clear advantages; it takes up no floor space, the bath would be totally unadapted for other people (nothing in their way etc). That body support thing looks like I could use it independently, and that's the key thing - if it doesn't/can't work, then I think we're bath to the transfer in the doorway option. So, thoughts? I don't want to get it to find it causes me damage/hurts/in six months I can't use it anymore. It looks pretty comfy to me (it's not going to be for long periods of time) as these things go, and certainly an improvement on the currently terrible bathroom situation. So, what dya think? It's only ribs that I'm concerned about, and am of course going to try it (with OT etc) blah blah blah, before pursuing. Just would like to know what others thoughts are?

[Spireite]

Shen and Nemonie,

Let me rephrase then from overpronation to incorrect pronation. As you say, you are straining certain muscles, eg calf, from not pronating correctly and that affects the whole leg, pelvis, spine etc. Also unstable feet and ankles (snap - I've got the most lax feet and ankles my podiatrist has ever seen!) lead to unstable gait which can lead to problems with the whole spine, speaking from logic and experience.

I agree with Rosie it isn't the only cause of scoliosis and rib problems, just one that physios and doctors don't think of.

[sheppeyescapee]

That makes sense. I have really unstable ankles, knees, hips and so on

[nemonie]

Hi Es*,

I think you'll have to try it out and see. It might be an idea to pad out the bit that comes in contact with the ribs with something foam-y to reduce the pressure on them. But it looks like there is a large surface area in contact with the ribs, so it should in theory spread the load quite well. You'll have to let us know how it works out for you and if we can borrow your OT

[shen]

Thanks Spireite. I thought you were talking about overpronating, thanks for clearing it up! When i stand properly, feet flat on the floor, im actually kinda knock-kneed which is alway funny to see. If i overpronated i'd walk even more funny than i do now!! But its interesting to know the effect on the gait and the spine too. I've never had my gait measured or analyzed particularly. Aside from the scoliosis i have what physio called a hinged spine too, in the lumbar region its very flexible and weak, I over extend it because its so weak, standing properly is uncomfy so i overextend to help rest the muscles, it goes in a good few inches, you can poke your fingers right in there. (looks kinda freaky), Could this also be affecting my ribs?

Also meant to say that, under the ribs on my left side where its all pokey outey and weird, there is like a long thin bruise like mark thats there constantly. Its only come up recently as the deformity has got worse.

[natnat]

Hi guys,

Wow glad I looked on here. I was diagnosed with HMS a couple of years ago after about 10 years of problems with my shoulders, hips ankles etc generally feeling like an 80 year old when I'm only 35.
Anyway I have had pain and tenderness on my left side for quite a few months, then a couple of weeks ago it was getting worse and when I looked in the mirror noticed that side was swollen and a different shape to the other side. Then the other day I was lifting some things off a shelf at work and the pain got much worse and has been ever since despite pain killers.
I went back to the GP for the forth time about this as it's geeting worse and he is sending me for an x ray of my ribs tomorrow. I hadn't assosiated it with my ribs untill now just pain in that area. I thought I would see if rib problems where common with HMS and I guess it is.
I always feel like such a fraud when I look on here though as everyone seems to have dislocations all the time but I don't get this, just pain and clicking and locking. Anyway I will see what the x ray brings, I sort of hope something shows up just so my GP takes notice and I know I'm not going mad