Running anyone?

[Captain Caveman]

Now I realise that most people here are not daft enough to try running, but if anyone is, what tips do you have for helping to keep you running with a minimum of injuries and pain

Particularly interested in tips relating to achilles tendonitis, plantar fasciitis, sore calves.

Currently I wear bespoke orthotics, use a wobble board, stretch and massage (though I haven't been very specific there!)
What has worked for you?

[poppy]

plantar fasciitis....
freeze a large round water bottle and roll it between the floor and the arch of your foot every night for 5 minutes... brings down swelling apparantly. and also, put 2 food tins by your bed and do the same with them for 5 minutes every day when you wake up (before you walk anywhere).

give it a go!

[Guest]

I run too although through the years I have had quite a few injuries even not been able to walk due to both ankles, at the minute I am fine. I use a combination of drugs - dicloflex and solpadol and lycra dynamic garments for vaious joints. I see Prof. Bird and he recommends to take the meds half an hour before I run although he does think I'm mad to keep running while I'm in pain. The joint damage causes arthritis but it really is a balancing act.

regards linz

[Shannon]

I ran the 10K in my hometown last March. I decided to sign up and take a training course to be sure I didn't hurt myself (ok well not tooo much) due to my HMS.

I would highly recommend some one on one time with a trained running instructor to be sure you're not damaging anything due to poor running technique...who knew you couldn't just go out there and run??

Epsom salt baths were a must as well as contrast baths to manage muscle injury. Great shoes fit by a trained professional are also a must. I would recommend training on chip trails or a running track to minimize joint impact.

All this being said, I still ended up feelinglike c**p for a good couple month after the race, but I felt really proud of myself for doing it since I hadn't run at all since high school (10 years ago!) gym class.

Good luck with your training and remember to listen to you body's limits.

[Captain Caveman]

Great to hear from you guys
I have been running for a few years now.
My main issue is flat feet. I've worn orthotics for 14 years now and have them changed every few years - they seem to get bigger and bigger, but better too - possibly as my feet get more abnormal! I have them fitted by a podiatry school's biomechanics clinic now and always put them in neutral shoes.
I always run off road, except in races. This might be on the canal (nice and flat too) or the athletics track. I enjoy the hills near me, but when training for the marathon 3 years ago developed achilles and heel problems and had to stop. I went back to the flat and this year finished an Ironman

Buoyed up by that success I decided to give fell running a go this season and have hit the hills again and so far its going well - but yes it's probably the daftest sport to try second only to rugby! I do get a great buzz from it and I really can amaze myself what it is possible to achieve with the right information and hard work

Has anyone else had sports massage here? I go regularly and he always works on my knotted calves. I really recommend it as part of a running maintenance program

[Boo]

Hello, I'm just newly registered and wanted to ask Captain Caveman a question. I saw in another thread where you linked to this one, that you were experiencing an ITB problem and that caught my attention.

I'm not diagnosed with HMS but do have a doctors appointment for Friday. My sister suffers a lot of similar problems to me - her are perhaps more skin and soft tissue oriented and mine are more joint related. She's had an informal diagnoses as she works in an operating theatre and when suffering with a sore hip and walking badly, ended up in discussion with a surgeon who sent her for an informal chat with a rheumatologist friend in the hospital who recommended she go to her GP for a formal referral as he felt she was hypermobile and they touched on familial connections. On her description he recommended I be seen too and it sounds as though my 19 year old son should also.

Hence my reason for posting this here - he went off to uni this September and about 2 weeks into the term, had an agonising problem develop with his thigh and saw a number of different doctors until one said he knew what it was as he suffered with it too and he diagnosed an inflamed Ilio Tibial Band (ITB). He prescribed a new arthritis type drug to help it heal and it has certainly improved, but he's still in significant discomfort and has missed more lectures on a hard science Masters course than any of us are happy about, as he just can't sit still due to the pain. The staff have been marvellous though, letting him catch up 1:1 in tutorials and individual study etc. but it's far from ideal.

He had to see the doc again last week, after this came to light, for a follow up and repeat presctiption and we talked it through with him and suggested he approached the doctor with the HMS idea to see if had any bearing on the potential treatment. He shot him down in flames in an instant, actually snorting at him with derision and said it was a ridiculous suggestion - without any form of examination of him or any of the joint tests - most of which he can do. The big warning sign to me was the fact that at 19 he's covered in stretch marks - great purple lines all over his torso and legs like he's been drawn on with a Sharpie. He's been very healthy all his life, rarely at the docs, except for joint issues (had sore knees as long as I can remember) and 'growing pains', same as I was at his age, as was my sister - plus some sores on his skin we never did get to the bottom of, which have now scarred badly. The doc didn't even look at his stretch marks, but said it sounded like Cushing's Syndrome and has referred him for tests - "but don't hold your breath, it will be months".

So after all that, my question was about the ITB - all the reading I've done suggests it's largely a running related injury issue - running on uneven camber roads, changes in training route etc. and I can't find out much about the anatomy of it - I know where it is and what it looks like and its function, but not the cellular anatomy - I imagine it's collagen based, so maybe a potential HMS issue, but I've seen no direct comment to that effect - other than yours here.

Could HMS even cause such a problem - or are we barking up the wrong tree - he doesn't routinely run and appeared to damage it when getting up from a chair after sitting still studying for a while. He's been walking it loose again and is now doing more at the gym on a running machine and bike and says that actually helps the tightness he feels, to exercise it - and the docs recommendation. It was worse when he was in more pain and therefore couldn't move much and it seized up worse than ever, he had to force himself to walk through the stiffness and it started to improve when he did. He, like the rest of us, clicks and pops all the time and can do weird things with his fingers, so if my sister and I do turn out to be hypermobile, I'm sure he will be too.

I've been doing a lot of reading since this came to light and have been making notes as I go along, I've 'ticked so many boxes' as I've gone along that if the doctor treats me the same on Friday, I'll be very hurt indeed - I was devastated for him, as I put him up to it and he was humiliated as a result. I actually feel quite a sense of relief myself, as it would explain the fact that I seem to be a total hypochondriac with lots of small issues - all of which make up the minor criteria list - I even recently had a calcified lump removed from my leg under a local that didn't work!

[Rachel1985]

I have an hours sports massage once a week & couldn't manage without it! I find it great for pain relief. Although I don't run, I have 2x 1 hour personal training sessions a week at the gym & I train in there by myself. I'd definately recommend it, like you said.

[nonyanomemory]

Hi Boo, I know you asked the initial question of captain caveman, however I thought I would just post to say Hi and welcome to the HMSA and to offer the following , I believe the condition ITB can be caused by excessive counter rotation of the tibia and femur as a result of over-pronation.Orthotics may be appropriate to correct the over-pronation and eliminate excessive counter rotation between the femur and the tibia. It may help your son to see a podiatrist at the earliest opportunity. It may help your son's gp to see that it is not just Cushing's syndrome that is connected with 'striae' stretch marks but also ehlers danlos hypermobility/hms - please see link provided clickable link stretch marks Now obviously I am not a doctor and no one can diagnose over the internet but with the family history you have provided it does seem to point toward a connective tissue problem. Perhaps you could ask that your son has an referral to a rheumatologist for clarification and to rule out any other connective tissue disorder such as Marfan's etc. Unfortunately, HEDS/HMS is not a well known condition so it is often the case that a gp may not have heard of it. It may be worth going to a different doctor and asking for a referral to a rheumatologist.

In essence the problem your son is having could have possibly been caused by an HMS related problem with over pronation. In the meantime seeing a podiatrist could really really help.

Hope I have been able to be of some small help - please remember I am not a doctor or anything just someone who has ehlers danlos and understands the condiontion a little.

Take care nonya

[Boo]

Many thanks for the welcome and help.

I believe the condition ITB can be caused by excessive counter rotation of the tibia and femur as a result of over-pronation.

That's certainly one of the explanations I've read about it, along with a shorter ITB that is tight and training issues etc. My interest I suppose in asking, was to know if the weakened collagen in HMS would lead to something like the ITB tearing more easily when used normally. He may well have a pronation type issue, but the damage seemed to occur when he got up out of a chair, having been still for some time - which if my understanding of HMS is correct, both stiffness after being still and a tendency to injure easily are common. I believe - also not as a doctor myself - that his current ITB 'inflamation' is an acute issue rather than a chronic one. He can pinpoint exactly when he damaged it, it isn't something he's experienced ever before that incident.

It might just be an unfortunate on-off injury, but it might also indicate potential future problems, which my main concern would be to get an understanding of and conduct himself appropriatelty to avoid problems if he has a tendency towards injury - if stretching and appropriate exercise might help him etc.

It may help your son to see a podiatrist at the earliest opportunity. It may help your son's gp to see that it is not just Cushing's syndrome that is connected with 'striae' stretch marks but also ehlers danlos hypermobility/hms

But that's just where we have a problem - if his GP is unwilling to even consider HMS as a possibility (possibly because he's never heard of it, as you say) there's no hope of getting any appropriate referral. He's decided that it's Cushing's as has closed the matter until he has some results or a report to read. I've done some reading on Cushing's too and just can't make it fit him at all - apart from the stretch marks (which the doc never looked at - I aways assumed they were because he was always very big for his age) and a tendency towards being spotty and them not healing - and he's 19 after all and the spots are exactly the same as all his chum's - he has no other indicators at all. He's 6'2" and very strong and broad (i.e. not marfanoid in any way) - he's a big lad who enjoyed rude good health until this incident - he's been to the docs more times over this injury than in his entire life to date.

the family history you have provided it does seem to point toward a connective tissue problem. Perhaps you could ask that your son has an referral to a rheumatologist for clarification

The only way his doctor is going to even consider this further is if my sister and/or I both get some sort of official diagnosis - and that's not going to be easy either. We're both seeing our GPs later this week. She has a good relationship with hers as she was training as a doc as my sister was training as a nurse, so there's professional respect and understanding. My GP is fairly new to me as my favourite one moved into palliative care, but my husband has been very acutely ill and recovering recently and he's been exceptional with him - he's a gentle and quiet listener, who puts his pen down and meets your eye - always an encouraging sign I feel - I hate when doctors are seemingly doing something else more interesting when you bare your soul to them! He's already seen me for an injured sacroiliac, so he knows I have pain and I'd already made the appointment to see him about that before this surfaced. My arthritis, bad healing scars, prolapsed bladder, unexplained palpitations amongst others, are all on record, as I've had treatment for all of these in recent times, so there's a recorded history of many of the 'minor criteria'.

It may be worth going to a different doctor and asking for a referral to a rheumatologist.

I think we need to wait and see how I go on and then re-approach it perhaps - it's tricky for him as he only moved away to uni this September and decided to take up a doctor there and has limited choice. There are other doctors in the practice, but as yet, they're all totally new to us and not had the opportunity to become trusted the way a family doctor does, over time. My son's resisting a little now too as he was humiliated and will shy away from repeating that experience on the basis of some dotty idea his Mam has.

Many thanks for the help.

[Boo]

My GP is fairly new to me as my favourite one moved into palliative care, but my husband has been very acutely ill and recovering recently and he's been exceptional with him - he's a gentle and quiet listener, who puts his pen down and meets your eye - always an encouraging sign I feel.

You can add me to the list of people who have had unsatisfactory experiences with a doctor. I just wasn't ready for how unpleasant that turned out to be - I'd totally mis-judged him - I'd really expected something more positive - and at least a discussion of actual symptoms. I'm apparently just an overweight hypochondriac who wants a label to excuse me from making an effort to help myself by losing weight, the only thing I actually need to make me feel better. He didn't put it quite so bluntly, but that's the gist of it.

I'd written a long post about it, but I'm sure that no one wants to hear it, but it made me feel better to write it down anyway.

"So what you really want is a label?" "How will that ultimately make you feel any better, there's no cure for it, no quick fix?" "And how will you feel when it's not this and you can't give it your label?"

"Well then, we'll know for sure that I've just been a hypochondriac for 35 years and I won't trouble you any further."

Even if all I truly need is to lose weight to feel better - some support and encouragement to make that happen would have been better than to be left feeling like I do right now.

I was crying out for help and I got slapped in the face.

[flyingfairy]

I had the same trouble with my GP. What he didn't actually realease was actually knowing what i have give me the relief of knowing that i was making it up and it wasn't my imagination.

Also on the diet thing, my doctor told me i was over weight but should be know ways of helping me do this. He can't get his head around having EDS

[Boo]

I wrote some more in the 'Introduce yourself' forum, on page 2 of this thread:

view topic

You hit the nail on the head, that's exactly it - it would be the relief of knowing there's been a reason for everything over a number of years. In my case, nearly 35 years. If I knew what it was, I'm sure I could manage the situation better. I've just always assumed I was a bit of a hypochondriac. I didn't want to be, I didn't choose to be, but the reality was that I have always just felt unwell. Or conversely, I don't think I've ever felt truly well. There's always something hurting.

You stop even mentioning your discomforts after a while, as you know no one wants to hear it and I get sick of hearing myself moaning too. There's nobody more bored with me, than me.

mod edit - fixed link

[Rosie]

Hi all

I am very overweight, and for years whatever I went to the GP with was blamed on my weight. See my post on here view topic.



Rosie

mod edit - fixed link

[Boo]

Absolutely everything I've ever seen a doctor about in recent years has been attributed to my weight - they don't even bother to look beyond it or listen to what you have to say - they see a pile of blubber in front of them and must mentally rub their hands in glee as they don't need to bother engaging their brains to think beyond it. Nice ready made diagnosis staring them in the face.

I know full well that it must be a contributing factor, especially with knees and back etc. but I really don't see it can be entirely responsbile for my elbows, wrists, neck etc.

I have a prolapsed bladder and the gynae I saw a few weeks ago couldn't even be bothered to extend me basic human courtesies. He actually asked if my doctor had even been to medical school before wasting his precious time on such an obvious diagnosis. He aked me "how on earth have you managed to even get so fat?" He declared that he wasn't wasting precious resources trying to make me more comfortable when just stopping eating would cure me. He said "come back and see me when you've lost 6 stone if you're still having trouble - you won't be". He swanned out of the door waving my file over his head in a parting you've-been-dismissed-gesture while I was mid-way through asking him if exercises would help and the next patient was ushered in before I'd even got dressed and I had to do so in front of them.

I have no idea why they take such delight in actually humiliating you in the process - is it some misguided psychological trick to embarrass you into taking action, or are they just plain mean?

[ombili]

Sooooo...about running.

I guess I just want to vent.

Preface for those who don't know:
Up until this past October, I was running fairly competetively. I am not an elite athlete, but I was able to place first or second female in most local races, and ran a marathon in 3:11, which is not bad, if not a winning time. I was making continuous improvements at a rate that really pleased me.

Now, I dropped out of a marathon in October due to discomfort, and haven't run consistently since. About a month ago I started seeing a physical therapist, and that's actually who diagnosed my hypermobility. I have been going three times a week and have not run because she said not to.

So now I am not feeling a whole lot better. I think I am for a day or two, and then I feel worse again. At my appointment on Wednesday (it was my 13th) I said I was feeling better and asked whether I could start running, and she said I could, if I could walk 3 miles without pain, first. Oddly, after I left their office, I started to have pain. So, I decided to walk the three miles anyway. The pain didn't get worse, I don't think, but of course it didn't go away, either. Actually, the "unaffected" leg started to bug me, but...

I guess my problems are:
-I don't know what to say when I go back
-I don't know any other runners who have been through this
-A big part of me feels like there is really nothing wrong with me, so if that's the case, why am I still going to the physical therapist? And why am I not running?

You know what I mean? I don't know whether I really have any problem at all, and part of me feels like everyone goes through the day with aches and pains.

Ugggghhhh. I'm just venting. But those of you who'd said you were into running, do you have anything to say that might help me make sense of it all?