benefit fraud

[justme]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/6278575.stm

This totally disgust me when so many disabled are fighting to get the benefit they need and entitled to

Chuck the key away I say!

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[t4curtis]

i completly agree with you but people like this dont jut make it hard for the people trying to claim the benefit they also make it hard for those of us who have good days and bad days, like me because news like this makes everyone look at you with that little bit of skepticism, and it is totally unfair, i think they really should make people like this not only pay the money back but work community service elping those disabled people who really do need the financial assistance that dla provides.

[tireesix]

Is all I have to say.

[Sez]

My ex (ever the bleeding heart sob-story) has just informed me that he is being investigated for "benefit fraud". I'm not sure what benefit it is for, but I am more than a little worried, as I am still legally his wife, whether this may have any implication on me and any money I (don't) have. E.g. If he is fined, could I be ordered to pay on his behalf? Or have his half of the house seized as it is his only asset? I have no idea what the procedure for this kind of investigation is (I suppose it would depend on which benefit it is), or what punishment may be dealt if he is found guilty.

It could, however, be another symptom of "please give me attention". In the nine months that we have been separated, he has supposedly been put on lithium, had a "suicide intervention", had testicular cancer again (and an op to remove it), broken two ribs, had numerous back spasms... the list goes on. However, every time I see him (usually at least once every two weeks or so because he comes round for his post) he seems perfectly fine. I recall when he DID have testicular cancer four years ago, it took months between diagnosis and the operation, and he was in pain with it for weeks, so I don't think that in the space of two weeks he has been diagnosed, operated on and recovered .
But you never know - there may be some truth to what he says.

[hannah]

Sez - sorry to hear you have another worry. I could give some ideas on what would be a logical standpoint for the benefit people, but it might not be right, so I will go and do a bit of research before posting any more.

[Eloise]

Actually - to put a downer on things (But positive for anyone who does have a cancer scare). A bloke at work with me was diagnosed with testicular cancer and had it all removed etc within two weeks!
(From going to A&E with the pain to the operation).

But, I know they investigate things fully - so they will be able to assess that you are truely seperated and having nothing to do with him.

Try not to worry

Take care xx

[hannah]

Me again!

I found the following list of things that count as benefit fraud:

Benefit theft includes:
- not telling us that you are now living with a partner
- not telling us that you are receiving other benefits
- not telling us about any savings or not telling us the right amount
- claiming for children who have left home
- not telling us that you have started work, or about any earnings
- not telling us that you have inherited money
- not telling us that you are going abroad, living abroad, or have changed address.
(from http://www.dwp.gov.uk)

Basically, deliberately withholding information that affects your claim.

If you are claiming benefits, or your partner is, make sure that you haven't accidentally fallen foul of any of these.
Regarding your ex, I don't think you should worry. As far as I could see, the key is 'deliberately withholding information' - you haven't completed any forms for him with untruths on, you haven't called the benefit people with false information. Therefore you haven't commited an offence. If he has, then he has. I should think that benefit fraud in one half of a separated/divorcing couple isn't that rare (I know he may well be innocent, but looking at the 'worst case scenario') and it would be 'ultra vires' meaning 'outside the law' for a judge to rule that you had to pay for his fraud. Like his brother wouldn't be made to pay, nor his mother. Cos he is an adult and responsible for his own actions.

I used to work as an EHO and we sometimes prosecuted people for things regarding rented houses. It was the person responsible who had to 'carry the can' - if someone had broken the law, they had to take the consequences and their partner would not be involved unless they too had commited an offence themselves. From reading on the DWP site I think it is the same for you.

So, in a longwinded way, i am trying to say don't worry. just check that all your details are completely up to date with the benefit people if relevant. Then go your merry way and forget about your ex's finances.
It may be that in their investigations they ask you questions. If they do so, answer them honestly. Also probably sensible to mention to your lawyer that he has told you he's being investigated, but your involvement would be at most 'routine questions'. So don't worry about it.

I used to work on the same floor as the benefit chaps, so below is my understanding from minor involvement in the past:
Punishment is usually along the lines of fines and paying back the benefit claimed but shouldn't have been. The ammount to be paid takes into account the individuals finances - and usually it can be paid in installments - so much a week/month to make sure it is affordable.

The procedure is along the lines of initially notify that are under investigation then:
investigate to see whether thought to be fraud going on - includes looking at bank accounts, business transactions, asking questions, in some cases 'tailing' the suspect to see where he goes and what he does, asking questions of family/colleagues.
Once they have enough information they either drop the case as not fraudulent/not enough evidence.
Or they do a PACE interview with the suspect (i.e. your ex) this is an official recorded interview, and they use the formal caution that the police use 'anything you say may be used as evidence....etc'. These take a set format and are like a final screening before deciding what action to take.
Then they decide whether to drop the case or take it to court.

Having said all that, it does sound as if he may possibly be looking for attention though. so another reason not to panic about it.

Incidentally, if it does turn out to be true that he is being investigated, and you want to know more about what to do etc, feel free to pm me with any questiosn and I will see if I can help.

Hannah

[Sez]

Thanks for all that detailed information.
I imagine he will be in trouble for not having told anyone he's moved. All his DWP letters for Incapacity benefit, etc, still come to my house, Job Centre letters, Inland Revenue letters, bank statements.... it's been nine months, and he just comes round occasionally to collect everything. I keep thinking that I will put "return to sender" on them or something but have put it off because I want to keep things "nice" between us for the sake of getting the divorce done as painlessly as possible.

I informed everyone I was meant to - Council, Tax Credits, Inland Revenue, mortgage company, bank... anything that was in joint name, I phoned and explained that he had gone, and then phoned again when Darren moved in. So I've done my bit. I've also phoned the Job Centre to say that he's gone, but that I don't have forwarding details, so I wonder if it was possibly me that's dropped him in it then!

[Hayley]

Sez, if you've informed the Inland Revenue then I'm sure you'll be fine but to be on the safe side, I would inform the DWP too!

Hayley

[Sez]

I called the DWP about my DLA claim, and they said that they didn't need to know. I did ask who I needed to contact because my ex was claiming some Job Seeker's incentive thing, where he got £40 a week for 12 months to help with travel expenses to work, etc, but I was told that it wasn't my responsibility to inform them that he had moved out. I might give them a bell again anyway...

[nonyanomemory]

Sez, he needs to stop his mail coming to your house. If this was me I would inform him that unless he provided his address poste haste I would be returning all mail as 'no longer living at this address'.

I am so sorry - yet another stress hun
nonya

[justme]

Just what I would do...return to sender. Give him a date from when it will stop and put it in writing

If you have informed authorities of your split then from that date you are not responsible for his miss doings. However with his mail from the benefits folks still coming to your address there maybe reason that they could consider you are in collusion with his fraud

Also speak to a solicitor to protect yourself

[sarahh]

Hi Sez hun I really hope things start looking up for you, your ex OH is out of order. I would do the same send the letters back with return to sender on them he isn't living there anymore it's up to them to find out where he is and chase him for it. I would also get some advice from a solicitor as Justme has said to protect yourself.

You take care hun

Sarah x

[nat05]

Big hugs ont hier way sez

Def contact a solicitor for your own sake and mark all mail RETURN TO SENDER. i had to do that in uni digs as we always got former tennants post through.

I cant remember but have you contacted them and logged it that he no longer lives with you? may be worth doing it again even if you have.

take care hun
xx

[Sez]

Big hugs ont hier way sez

Def contact a solicitor for your own sake and mark all mail RETURN TO SENDER. i had to do that in uni digs as we always got former tennants post through.

I cant remember but have you contacted them and logged it that he no longer lives with you? may be worth doing it again even if you have.

take care hun
xx

Yes, I've informed everyone I can think of that he is no longer residing with me, but because he is not being forthcoming about where he is, it's making life difficult . I discussed it at my last solicitors appointment, and he told me that he would organise for anything for my ex to look at or sign would come C/O my address, as I cannot divorce him without an address on the paperwork . My solicitor thought that so long as I have informed everyone relevant that he is no longer there, then I should continue to take his post - if I start sending it back, there is a chance that my ex will become difficult about signing the paperwork and getting the divorce pushed along, when we're so close to getting it completed. He thought it was down to my ex to inform companies of his whereabouts, and not my responsibility.

I wish I had the money to hire a private investigator. I have spotted my ex coming out of a house round the corner from us on several occasions, so I believe he may be living there. However, he insists that it is where one of his friends has moved to and that he has been giving him a hand with moving in, redecorating, etc. What makes me suspicious is that he still insists that he is "living between friends" and therefore has no fixed address (i.e. spending a few days a week with different people), but he sent me a text yesterday relating to "organising collection of the last of this things" - he has a few bits in the loft still. Surely if he didn't have anywhere permanent to live, he wouldn't be wanting his stuff just yet as he would have nowhere to put it?