Employment Support Allowance (replacing IB from Oct 2008)

[star gazer]

Hi mazza, I think you can start a new claim because even if it goes to tribunal they will only look at what was relevant at the time of the application ie the derpression. If you start a new claim you will be able to include all the new stuff too. as curly sue say B&W are a great source for info and advise with esa and dla but i do know that the tribunal will only look at how you health was at the time of application.
hopw that helps
star gazer

[mazza111]

Thanks SG. That's what I was thinking, but dwp said to wait until it goes to tribunal. Which is a bit off as her main health complaint is different from her original claim. Trying to get an appointment with CAB at the moment, and have mailed a similar advice place in Scotland which are similar to see what's the best route to go down. Just seems daft wasting tribunals time and money when she'd be entitled to it for other stuff if u know what I mean.

[star gazer]

mazza I would check the dwp comment on the forum at benefits and work as sometimes the dwp call staff are not always 100% right with their facts, I know for sure that with a dla claim going to tribunal you can definately re apply whilst waiting for tribunal. It might save you time in the long run especially if the tribunal date is a long way off.
best wishes
star gazer

[curlysue]

Mazza,

Stargazer could be right, I think it might be worth getting a second opinion on it. Not least because the DWP are always usually banging on about 'you must tell us if your circumstances change'. Well your daughter's circumstances HAVE changed so surely by their own rules the changes ought to be taken into account. A cynical person might say (!) that they are trying a delaying tactic by telling you to wait for the tribunal. As SG says it could be a way off as there is a huge backlog I believe. I wonder if it would be possible to cancel the tribunal, i.e. accept the 0 points, and then reapply for ESA straight away. Do get advice from B&W or CAB before doing that though!

CSx

[mazza111]

yeah CS that's what I was thinking when I was on the phone to them today. Will see if this lot (a bit like CAB but called Citizen's Advice Direct) say with regards to it, in the meantime, I'll keep trying to get through to the CAB, so underfunded the phone seems to take a backseat. Might need to bite the bullet and try in one of their sit and wait clinics.

I'll let you all know what happens over the next few days, won't do anything before Wednesday as that's when she's due her payment, then take it from there.

[star gazer]

Hi mazza I asume that while you are waiting for tribunal your daughter will be paid at assessment rate, so if you do reapply dont cancel the tribunal until you get the results of the new application and if it is a positive result cancel the tribunal at that point, it has been known for people to be waiting for 2 tribunals, the origional and the a renewal also. But as Curly sue says, at this point your daughters conditions have changed and as the dwp say they do like to be notified and at that point they would normally send out a new form to complete anyway.
good luck with it all and let us know how it goes
best wishes
sg

[mazza111]

Well the advice line i asked just really confirmed what I thought, that the tribunal will only look at original case. They have recommended I get in touch with the welfare rights people at local social work dept. Tried to do this yesterday but their computers were down so couldn't make an appointment

I was just shocked that they wouldn't even do a change of circumstances over the phone. I didn't go to the medical with Stacey, but she said she told them about her mobile joints at the time. However there is no mention of anything like that on the medical report, so we could perhaps argue the case on that matter. Seems the form we had sent back went missing too so we have no record of telling them about the mobile joints.

Going to try again for the welfare rights officer on Monday, will keep you updated

[mazza111]

Spoke to welfare rights officer at local social work dept. They said we've to demand a change of circumstances, which in effect will mean a new claim. Which is what we all thought. Will take her to the docs tomorrow, to get a new fit note (even though she only put one in last week), call them on Wednesday (the day she's due paid so she doesn't lose out on her fortnightly money) then take it from there. What a nightmare eh?

She's sure she told them at the medical about the knees being mobile, but we can't prove that. So unsure whether the tribunal will go ahead or not. Guess we'll wait and see what they say come Wednesday

[star gazer]

Hi mazza hope you get some answers on Wednesday. Just a heads up, even if your daughters mentioned hypermobile knees she would need to demostrate or describe how having bendy knees actually impacts on her well being ie, do they cause her to collapse be unable to walk very far, cause pain etc etc. unfortunately with every statement you make to the dwp you need to back it up with an explanation of how it impacts on daily living so it might be worth keeping a diary of events, pain and any meds needed.
best wishes
sg

[mazza111]

Hiya SG, thing is, when she had her medical back in October, the knees were dismissed, although they were mobile then, they weren't dislocating as they do now. Had her back at GP today for another fit note, doc has wrote on it, patella alta, several knee dislocations and depression. So hopefully now with the new claim and new medical upcoming they will look at the whole thing rather than just the depression. Feel so sorry for her, almost got knocked down by 2 different people (on foot) who just didn't see her today when walking to the bank, she's so slow walking atm she just can't get out of people's way the way she should I don't know if it's cos she's slow or cos she's little but I'm pretty sure she feels invisible at times

Anyhoo, I'll get told off for going off topic again. Will let you all know how it goes tomorrow when we call them

[curlysue]

Hey all, my ESA50 is now finished and sent... a knackering couple of days filling it in and now I feel like I need to go back to bed!! I guess it's all in the hands of Atos now. :/

I did get some good advice over the past couple of days from Welfare Rights and CAB, and I just wanted to share one particular nugget from Welfare Rights:

The chap I spoke to said that if for any reason you are sending your form back a little late, or very close to the deadline, it's not enough just to phone the DWP and let them know - even if you have a valid reason. This is because Atos are still, in his experience, declaring that a form is not back on time on the day of the deadline regardless. He said they are very quick to do this, and it can lead to you being found fit for work.

His advice was to make a copy of the form (you should do one for yourself too) and send it to your local Jobcentre Plus address, which is different from the address on the return envelope from Atos. This is so that if Atos claim that the form hasn't been received, and tell the Jobcentre to find you fit for work, the Jobcentre can see that you actually have sent the form in, and they will inform Atos of this. This is what I've just done for mine as the deadline is tomorrow.

Hope that's helpful. Wish me luck!!!

CSx

[mazza111]

GL CurlySue.

Quick update, DWP refused point blank to start a new claim, saying she should just go to tribunal. So I insisted that I speak to someone else, and got a call back. They will continue with the tribunal, but also start a new claim, so that she doesn't lose out on money in the meantime. Which will probably end in a new medical, which we would welcome.

[curlysue]

Mazza, well done for persevering and getting a new claim started - sounds like they were a really tough nut to crack!

CSx

[star gazer]

Hiya mazza, thats a bit more positive, at least with the new claim you can present the case of her health as it is now with evidence to back it up. I hope all goes well.
curley sue, always a weight of the mind once the form goes back, hopefully you wont have to wait too long before you hear something. After mine had been back with them for 8 weeks I started weekly phone calls to findout the status of my claim as it had been left in a pile for so long

[shen]

HOLY CR*P.... Sorry guys i just have to share this...

I have just received a phone call from the ESA people... I got put on contributions based group immediately.... no medical... nothing... Apparently I have to see an advisor at the job centre every 3 months to 'catch up' but they cannot force me to work...

I informed them about undertaking a masters course and they were starting to get snotty, I had told them in the form aswell! I informed them that it does actually say on their website that they do indeed support people in education and that I will send them details of my course but the fact of the matter is that if you are aware enough that I can enter the support group no medical, then it is obvious that I cannot both study and work, and that in allowing me to finish my education and find a job suitable to my skills ad needs i'll be paying back far more in taxes than you ever allowed me, besides that it is a research based course with just around 2 hours of tuition a week and the rest is off my own back. That seemed the quiet her down a bit. I will also send them the information from their website that outlines students over the age of 19 who get DLA automatically being entitled to being the limited capability for work group :

"If you are 20 years old or over and you get DLA, you automatically count as having limited capability for work. If you are in advanced education, whether under or over 19, you will also automatically count as having limited capability for work if you get DLA. You will still be assessed under the limited capability for work-related activity test, which decides whether you are in the support group or the work-related activity group."

Taken From: http://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/f31.htm and refers ONLY to students

But... oh... my... god... I am slightly speechless at this point, I was expecting everything terrible about the medical and all that c**p... can it be that somebody got it right?? I'm waiting for a phone call now to tell me they made a mistake or something....